hello this is coach Tim campsall and I’m your host for the self-made is a myth show making a difference together where we’re talking with successful business owners to hear their stories of the journey to building their business and because we know that success in business doesn’t happen on our own we’re taking some time out to recognize and appreciate the folks who have helped us along the journey today I’m excited to have a fellow business owner from Indiana with us today my guest is a duck hunter and has taken his two older children to Saskatchewan to hunt so uh being a Canadian I definitely want to hear more about this story he has many hobbies like coaching and golf and basketball and reading and photography and hikings who will learn a little bit more about that and he’s most proud of his uh his children which is uh awesome to hear they’ve they’re turning into some amazing people and uh secondly his business which as it’s grown has been able to maintain an amazing culture and again we’ll we’ll dig into that a little bit here it’s my pleasure to welcome Jason to the show today hello Jason hello Tim thank you so much uh happy to be here and I appreciate that warm introduction well let’s jump in and have you introduce yourself tell us a little bit of your personal story where you were born where you live about your family and and things like that sure happy to do so uh from Bay City Michigan uh so God’s countries I would like to refer it Michigan in general um a really kind of a blue color background uh my father worked at GM my mother worked a little bit on the side but stayed at home and raised the kids uh ended up going to college at Rose Holman uh down here in Indiana um played basketball there and had a great experience I made some great friends um after Rose worked at caterpillar for a bit really a couple things there uh figured out what I didn’t want to do and really had the best boss and worst boss of my career until now um and learned a lot about leadership and and really got impassioned by that as noted I have four kids uh three of them are in college so really young adults and then we have an 11 year old which is a little bit of a surprise but it’s been a blessing to do it all over again and very proud of them and perhaps you know the largest impact I can have in the world is is really through them and raising uh wonderful young adults fantastic um and uh you’ve had listed a whole bunch of hobbies but let’s talk about uh duck hunting in Saskatchewan how did you uh fall into that yeah so some of my Fondest Memories uh growing up and I’ve only did it for a couple years but was hunting with my father uh and a friend of his uh herb woods and I got back into it so I was a caterpillar and I should have hunted there I don’t know why I didn’t um when I moved back uh to Indiana and worked at Lily for a bit uh 13 years I got back into duck hunting and it’s just a passion of mine being outside being out in nature and uh of the four kids the two oldest ones have taken an interest in it and so we’ve done some hunting uh there’s a trip that my brother-in-law started out in North Dakota for about 10 years and in Saskatchewan uh now for more than 10 years and it’s just phenomenal the country the people the Sensei Community I mean we go out there to to shoot birds and you know bring them home and eat them and and all that but the stories we tell are rarely about hunting it’s about the people sitting around the dinner table and sharing a drink or a meal and uh it’s it’s just a phenomenal experience and to be able to share that uh so one time I had both my children older children as well as my brother-in-law and his son and some other relatives of his and then I’ve also had just happened to work out where a single trip with my son as well as a single trip with uh with my oldest daughter uh just the two of us it’s a special special time that’s awesome so um given uh you spend so a lot of time with your family I bet you there’s some funny stories that they like to tell you about you is there one that you’d be willing to share with us today oh story for the kids I don’t uh there’s plenty I don’t know that I can think of one right now my son did immortalize me on a Cheez-It box um that was a Christmas gift we were out uh so I guess this was a year ago we did a little bit of uh college campus tours with Lindsay and we were done in North Carolina uh and we were on the pontoon boat we were out on a lake and my daughters were being a little instagrammy which isn’t really them um and so I don’t know I guess I was making fun of them I held a cheese it out and they took a photo and apparently at that moment right so that’s going on a box and that’s what I got for Christmas [Laughter]

maybe later they need to share that out with the communities though uh Jason tell us how the business came about and at what point did you have the confidence that you could run your own business yeah it’s uh it’s almost a two-part story you know the first part and you know people sometimes hate when I share it this way but I sort of backed into it at the time I was at your Encore um it was the niche consulting company uh I was an executive on loan back at Lilly in all honesty um and working with some of the my old colleagues there um and I really was doing less and less work focused on your Encore and I was reporting to the CEO Brad Lawson who’s a wonderful individual um and at one point he said if you know this isn’t really our Core Business and what you’re doing if you want to pick it out on your own you know it’s a possibility so I took him out to breakfast and um I said Brad you know if you kind of put the CEO hat to the side and just it was a friend a mentor a coach you know walk me through is kind of the pros and cons and what it would look like to take it out on my own versus to keep it under your Encore and in his credit I mean he really walked through openly transparently around you know the thinking the thought process behind it um and then I had another meeting probably a month or two later and I I can close my eyes and picture all of it I’m in his office so we’re on a circle uh in Indianapolis I can picture the sun streaming kind of through the blinds and I’m talking to him and and I’m I’m pretty sure I want to take this out on my own and start my own company and be a single shingle at first and grow it from there in three separate times three separate times he says but Jason you know you can do whatever you want but you know the safe thing to do is to stay right here within your Encore and he’s saying the safe thing to do Tim I’m fighting visceral convulsions I don’t know where they’re coming from um and so I call my brother up and uh I was like John I you know I think I’m unemployable and he starts talking me off the ledge like no I could get a job I don’t think I want to do it for someone else yeah I think I want to take it out I want to build it create it I want to do it myself I want to build culture I want to do it differently than what I’ve experienced uh amidst corporate culture um and so that’s that’s what we’ve done that’s awesome so tell us more about the company what do you guys do how do you help folks yeah we’re a niche management advisory company we we manage large programs in the life science Industry um anywhere from clinical trials to healthcare informatics uh to facilities Capital planning a little bit of change management we’ve done some transformative quality management uh projects across the industry we’re kind of a project program management shop um we are as passionate about the outcomes and you know the opportunities that our clients have we’ve got great depth and expertise and and that’s what we do we’ve uh we’ve been able to help establish and grow a non-profit uh from really startup to being fully self-sustainable greater than 10 million dollar revenues a year we’ve established most of those processes um in you know one of the biggest compliments an old colleague of mine from Lily said you know Jason before pintail got involved you know we just talked right it was an idea and you guys moved it to action and moved it to delivery um we’ve helped some rescue clinical trials in the covid space we’ve enabled um some of our clients to get uh tens of millions of dollars in NIH um grants uh through our ability to deliver and establish credibility within their organization it’s it’s been fun it’s been a lot of fun we’re small But Mighty yeah that’s awesome so Jason tell us a story where uh someone pushed you or inspired you that you could do it maybe even when you didn’t think you could and the impact of that person had on you yeah I don’t know if I got a great story there but I will share uh so I met with my financial uh advisor and the two of them and we were talking in uh apparently I have not shared with them yet that I went out on my own um and this this had already happened so uh they picked themselves off the floor uh we were at uh Bob Evans and that was a little embarrassing but once I got off the floor kind of tested themselves off it was an awkward silence um and finally you know Dan Burnett uh looked me in the eye and said smiled and said you know what I rarely met a person that has regretted betting on themselves again he said I rarely admit a person that has regretted betting on themselves wow that has stuck with me I’ve shared that certainly with other people who have been in similar situations in moving forward in yeah so that’s been a kind of a motivating factor in uh yeah something to live by as we go forward I love that thinking and it kind of goes back to what you were saying earlier about you know you realize that you know you just don’t want to work for someone else and right the the ability to to have more say and control and and uh you know Hands-On uh in terms of the outcome when you work for yourself is is significantly greater and and you can pivot faster and you can you know make different decisions and so I I like that that term of never regretted betting on themselves that’s amazing it really is and I I probably shouldn’t do these next couple of comments but you know in some ways I feel like Corporate America has no soul in one of the worst lines that I’ve heard and I’ve heard it repeatedly um especially in the midst of layoffs in the midst of you know some change or uh catastrophic change right it’s just business I can’t tell you how many times it’s just business you know what it’s not yeah and I’ve been a part of lots of a number of layoffs I’ve uh some might probably continue to do again if I had to do it all over again others you know maybe not but it is more than a business and it’s people it’s livelihood you know I’ve got a number of folks that you know they trust me in pintail Solutions uh to keep them gainfully employed and to raise a family and to have a living and a sense of purpose in life and it’s much more than business and that’s that’s a line that I has always irritated me in uh we’re not perfect and we’ve not gone through any layoffs at pintail and maybe we will someday but um but we know that it’s certainly more than business and that’s how we uh treat and approach our employees as well as our clients and what we do yeah there there’s definitely a difference between at least in my experience between family-owned companies or private owned companies and public owned companies right the the public owned companies seem to have the culture in a book or it’s it’s printed on the wall and that’s as far as it goes right versus you know private companies the culture seems to be more yeah yes it’s printed somewhere but it’s actually lived out and reinforced and modeled on a day-to-day basis and and there’s a big focus on it I know you mentioned that uh that that’s one of the things you’re most proud of is your company culture and it sounds like you know that you guys are actively living it out day to day as opposed to it just be printed on a shirt or in a binder absolutely you’re absolutely correct so what makes that difference how do you what why is that so important to you well I think it makes all the difference um I don’t know exactly what makes that difference and we’re honestly trying to tease that out a little bit uh while we’re a small company we’re a remote company we’ve got folks in multiple States and always have um I’ll tell a quick story I was meeting with another business owner locally here in Indianapolis um and we’re talking first time I met her in Zoom call or whatever and you know she’s like oh we’re a small giant I said okay and we kept talking and she said oh we’re a small giant it’s like okay and we kept talking and the third time she said we’re a small giant was like I better Google this on the side while I’m talking to her but you probably know already um since then I’ve read the book uh but one of the things that really struck me with the book is just a sense of community and so you know we we talk a lot about community and how to build community when we’re remote and I’ve got you know one person in Atlanta one person in Maine we’ve had people in Vermont and New York I’ve got people in Florida and so how do you build that sense of community um and it’s hard I don’t know what we have it figured out but uh but we’re certainly doing some things right yeah when I started the company you know I spent a lot of time thinking through um the clients in what we want to do and how we want to serve them and and you know meet their needs and exceed their needs I thought a lot about uh employees and in how we want to treat them and recognizing that right they’re the ones that are out on the front lines working with the clients and delivering on their behalf there’s a third space um that I probably didn’t think about and that’s and it’s sort of the company culture in the background as we talk to some of our folks and I’ve had a few people um bring me to tears you know they they work hard they work as hard as they did when you know they’re at the cros and the Pharma companies and biotechs and clinical trial sites that they’ve worked at um and they say things like I got my life back hmm and it literally say I got my life back uh my my spouse notices it my kids notice it um because I feel trusted respected uh I can act autonomously I and you know that was a space that I I probably overlooked a little bit but we’ve created something there um we’re focused on scaling up now and further diversifying you know kind of our client base um but you know I lie awake at night often thinking about how do we maintain that culture as we get bigger as we grow as we uh expand in um it’s it’s in the Forefront of everything we do and hopefully we uh continue to maintain that that’s awesome one of the things that we do to to help maintain it is in our Monday huddles I’ll read out one of our points of culture and then and then I’ll start and I’ll say how where I feel like I’m doing well in areas that I need to improve and then and then my team we just go around the circle and everybody does the same thing and find that that’s a way to keep it real as opposed to right it just being this this list of things that is printed on the wall we you know we hold each other accountable to it and we we speak out loud about you know how we’re doing against our culture so that we can you know sharpen this on keep keep on keep each of us you know accountable to to being real and and focusing on that on a week-to-week basis I love it I appreciate you sharing that we have a couple of uh business meetings a week uh one is is pretty business oriented uh consistent with um EOS the book traction entrepreneurs operating system Etc the other one is a bit more kind of team focused it’s a little softer uh but you know we’ve got you know one or two or three people kind of on their own Islands right and they’re dealing with their own client um and have very little awareness around what our other teams are doing across with other clients uh and so again as we try and build that connection that Community we want you know whether you know you’re velina working with a specific client I want her to represent not just her own skills and expertise uh but you know the Dougs and ronas and Megan’s and everyone else that we have on the team as well and so what we do is um once a month we’ll have someone really kind of Deep dive into who they are both personally as well as professionally and they will write pause and at least one of our values uh and spend a little bit of time around uh what’s really important to them how do they emulate it how does it transfer transfer or translate for our clients but I like the idea of having everyone perhaps every month or every week share more broadly that’s great thanks

um what’s the biggest learning that you’ve had as a business owner over the years

yes um it’s probably a couple uh one is is you know really appreciate the impact and the value that you’re bringing and don’t be afraid to ask for a fair price you sacrifice margins far too many times yeah but we work with a lot of non-profits and uh but but we deliver and we deliver in different ways than other folks and once we get into an organization we rarely leave they recognize the difference when that project ends they find another project to keep our folks on um and it’s really really a beautiful thing uh that and the one that it for sure is not solved yet is really the difference between working in the business and working on the business um and how do you balance and how do you scale in those two things uh is it just an ongoing challenge I think it’s the traditional sort of entrepreneur’s dilemma yes [Laughter] there’s no good information for you there but yes

I I love that uh entrepreneurial dilemma it’s it certainly is and what when we first start uh working with clients we we ask them to commit to an hour a day and and you know that’s an easier you know piece of the elephant to bite off than right than going further than that and um and you know you get the momentum right you spend an hour a day on the business and you get a bunch of things accomplished and and eventually you can you can scale up from there that’s right Jason we know that business success doesn’t happen in isolation so tell us about one of the challenges that you’ve faced during the years and and maybe a fellow business owner that came alongside you helped you get through that yeah um we got really busy and tied into a single client we grew that client quite a bit um I don’t think we got lazy but we certainly were very focused on that client and then at some point realized that we really need to scale we need to diversify our client base to be a successful company to move forward um I got introduced I cannot remember where I got introduced to entrepreneurs operating system in the book traction and I started doing things on my own um with it and made some progress uh and then really kind of had to hit the reset button and say you know what I really need to work with others I need to connect with some other business owners so I frankly started really my own small group I work out of launch Fishers uh there’s a number of other business owners here there’s other people that I know invited a handful of people uh but really there were probably two um Andrew Curtis he owns fuel VM uh they’re a brand in digital marketing development agency and then Rex Biggs he owns reptio he’s more of an accountant but an accountant with a focus on you know business strategy growth diversification um and there are others as well but creating that small group and then re-going through and re-reading traction and then living it out uh in the people that were in the group were really in all different phases um some most were probably ahead of where we were at some were sort of full implementation some had made progress but sort of stalled and maybe there’s another one that was you know a little bit behind uh where pintail Solutions was at but really partnering with like-minded individuals you kind of mentioned it already you know as a Biblical verse of you know iron sharpens iron in uh in really having um you know a couple of pieces of iron next to me to help sharpen own it and provide perspective and uh expertise is has been really really impactful fantastic so just continuing that Trend if I asked you to pick three people in your business owner Journey that you’re most grateful for being there for you to help with your growth who are those three people and how they help you that’s a harder hard question um I’d probably start with carmel Eagan carmel’s uh someone I worked with at Lilly um then I left Lily and when I came back as uh an executive on loan for this non-profit that we were working with um really connected with her in a different way um and she’s been really instrumental in helping grow the business uh recognize the difference of what pintail does and how we do it and really bring us into some other organizations as well and it’s been really instrumental and I as I talked out loud here I I don’t know if I’ve really uh demonstrated that gratefulness and appreciativeness of what she’s done but she’s been a big help well she’s going to know now uh yeah Doug Wilson is another one uh Doug Wilson was a neighbor of mine um uh now mentor of mine someone I probably got tap into often enough he’s more connected than I could ever hope or imagine to be has done a number of different things on the business front loves to tie in the science and art in different uh aspects to it um and he’s helped challenge me and help me see things differently probably in more ways than he’s even aware of um so I kind of keep going you know at some point I really need to talk about uh my family probably my father and brother you know most of all uh my father was really kind of in middle management in General Motors in a Foundry um I don’t think he has any idea what I really do and what pintail Solutions really does despite that he will offer an opinion and the crispness and Clarity of his perspective and his opinion is almost always right on um so the connection to the values the treating people I mean without knowing technically what we really do um you know the advice and that he provides in a humble manner um it’s always spot on and I’m not exactly sure how he does it um I’m certainly grateful for that

someone I brought in um as VP of operations she’s helped push the EOS further within our organization she’s introduced us uh to some new ways of doing business and and help manage that and she’s been uh she’s been a godsend fantastic so thinking forward Jason is the you know think about the next three to five years what are the biggest challenges that you see that you’re going to face to in terms of reaching your goals and who are the types of people that you’re going to need to help you with those challenges yeah probably a couple things come to mind one is um you do a better job of productizing our services uh you know we come in we deliver projects uh we do so across a number of fronts I mean it sometimes can feel a bit like a staffing agency which really isn’t who we are or what we do so being crisper around productizing our services and then scaling those up and scaling those up within clients to up new clients um is really really important um as far as who we need to work uh you know talk to engage with and work with really people who’ve been there and done that and have you know greater experience in in working through both the productization as well as the scale up and so you know we are seeking you know those folks out to partner with and learn from and hopefully teach in other ways uh as well fantastic Jim Rohn said that we become the average of the five people that we spend the most time with so as you as you think about that what advice would you have for business owners who are trying to do it on their own who who think that they you know that they have to do it on their own or that they don’t need others help yeah it’s easy to think that um the other uh thought which is uh probably not true is everyone’s busy everyone is busy but you also often can assume that well they don’t have time for me or they they wouldn’t want to spend time in this and very very rarely have I run into a mentor or someone even people I don’t know frankly uh very well that haven’t been willing uh to offer up uh their time uh their ideas their thoughts uh to move forward so starting out um find a way to help yourself it can be a book it can be a podcast um there’s this guy uh so Tim cancel he’s got a podcast interviews business owner maybe that’ll help I don’t know um yeah looking a little bit but connect with other leaders connect with other mentors one-on-one you know put yourself out there introduce yourself uh and then you know what we did is you know find a small group you know I end up creating my own but there’s other small groups out there again that whole concept of iron sharpens iron um and you go back and you know what I said when I started my small group most of the people that I brought in were already ahead of me as far as implementation of EOS and traction and and what that meant um so don’t don’t worry or don’t hesitate about being a small fish in a big pond bring people in that are better than you um that have more experience than you or you know are just a bit ahead of you uh and learn from them and that’s what I would encourage them to do I I loved your your perspective of a book or a video so you know it it your the five people don’t have to be somebody that you physically are interacting with you can learn a ton of information from a book and and as you mentioned right you guys have implemented EOS from from the traction book so there it doesn’t have to be somebody physically that you’re interacting with if you you know especially for folks in smaller communities it may be that you you’ve gotta get online and or read a book or watch a video it don’t allow that to be a barrier from your own personal growth and development you know give yourself permission to become a better version of yourself through the the information that you’re you’re bringing in and and I just I love what you did Jason in terms of creating your own you know mentoring group right it’s like hey we’re here we’re all in the same location why don’t we learn from one another and and support and encourage one another yeah it’s been great um well you said a lot of nuggets there um the Jim Rohn quote’s phenomenal I I we’ve lived by that both personally and professionally you know I’ve sure did help my children um and who they’re hanging around and what the impact that can have and how important that is and if you want to be better uh right put your surround yourself you know with better people um in you know rub off on them let them rub off on you and and move forward well you said something else I forget what it was triggered a thought apparently you also mentioned that uh you know oh I’m sorry the book and the podcast is great um uh but there’s also something about taking that back and engaging with someone uh individually whether it’s Zoom whether it’s face to face uh individually or small group but you know there’s you can learn an awful lot I mean it’s a different world than uh you would when you’re you and I where you and I were 20 years ago uh for sure that’s available online and podcasts and and all that but still to be able to connect and put things in perspective in context um but I still think is is really really important but go ahead no please I I agree like the the the talking it out loud and saying hey I don’t really understand I get the the concept but I don’t understand how to implement it in BNL to you know bounce those ideas around with other people and and get some feedback or to your point earlier right folks who maybe are a couple steps ahead of you might be able to see from the journey that they’ve been on and and and and and and you also mentioned that there’s this fear of well what if the person doesn’t have time for me and what if right they’re too busy or what if I’m a burden well um I I’ve had the same experiences as you that nobody has ever said no to me they might say hey not this week right or maybe yeah for a few weeks but no one’s ever told me no they wouldn’t be willing to to chat and share stories and and help one another um if you’re hungry and you’re willing to put in the work and you come prepared to the meeting and I mean just some small steps

people open up and they want to help others and they and it’s just been my experience I I’ve heard a few stories from others where you know it maybe didn’t work out that way but those are so rare people want to help they want to open up um especially if you’re in it for the right reasons and you’re willing to you know roll up your sleeves and put in a little work yourself that’s never been a problem I completely agree I think there’s a there’s a little bit of pain and forward too where we’ve we all know that people have helped us and so it’s almost like we’re you know we want to make sure that we thank the person that helped us by helping somebody who who reaches out to us and asks for help right you know what that was one of the things I probably missed the most when I was a single shingle and went out on my own seven and a half almost eight years ago um so I sought that out uh you know I’m a mentor at our church at St Louis to Montfort I’m a mentor through Edge uh program which is a Christian based whole life mentoring so I’ve got a handful of young men from maybe 22 to 33 and working through you know first jobs First Wives that was a joke first kids other things um and really helping them through but you know paying it back and paying it forward um and you know I get a lot out of it and you know the guys that I have and maybe all the groups are like that the questions they’re asking themselves uh about Legacy and impact and who they want to be at such a young age I don’t I don’t know if I was quite there uh when I was their age but it’s uh it’s inspiring and I certainly get a lot out of it as well Jason it sounds like you’ve been blessed with some incredible people who have helped you along uh your journey if they were all on the show here today what would you want to say to them not sure I know what to say I just simply sincerely thank you um thank you for investment in me pouring into me and the time that you spend um we’re trying to not only grow our company and do it the right way and make an impact for all of our employees as well as our clients but pay it forward uh with others and through others as well um you know back to the edge uh one of the exercises they wanted to do is they wanted to um develop a personal mission statement so I did a little bit of research online you know I found a tool it’s a little clergy for being honest but in 30 minutes and if you follow the directions it is 30 minutes uh and kind of go through you very very rapidly get to an end point um and for me uh you know my personal mission statement is um to make a difference in the world through others and we certainly do that uh through our clients at pintail we do it through our employees we do it through mentoring the children and raising them uh to be the human beings that they are um that’s meaningful for me and that’s what we’re trying to pay forward the best we can that’s awesome now speaking of uh making a difference and paying forward I believe that you’re going to be dancing or something tell us a little bit about that yes I am uh yes I am uh I was asked to be a uh a celebrity dancer I’ve I’ve had some friends um argue with maybe using celebrity a little bit Loosely um for a local charity um it is uh the Charities reason to dance Reason for Hope it supports Children’s Research uh through Riley Children’s Hospital um and if your Indianapolis area and I think even broader than that you know what the impact Riley’s has had and so many families if not your own um it’s a fantastic cause so yes I’m paired up with a professional dancer I am learning two dances uh the event is March 17th uh but the children’s dance is being recorded next Monday so I have a little bit of work to do to make sure that choreography um it’s it’s been great fun uh it’s been um it’s gotten me out of my comfort zone a little bit uh not so much the dancing but asking for money in fundraising and what that is probably more uncomfortable for me than even uh you know making embarrassing myself on the dance floor but uh like I said it’s a great cause uh so since we had the floor uh it’s reasontodance.org uh forward slash celebrities forward slash Jason dashboard if you want a fun and support greatly greatly appreciate it it’s a wonderful cause all proceeds go to Pediatric research through Riley Children’s the people who started the foundation they pay for all operating expenses they’re wonderful individuals uh Damon and Tamara uh Greeley um so yeah I appreciate you bringing that up and uh if folks want to contribute be much appreciated awesome and we’ll make sure to put the link uh here along with the video so folks can go to that now uh Jason will there be videos that we will be able to watch of you dancing there will I have put some on uh on LinkedIn already and Facebook all right um so

fantastic well we will again we’ll make sure to put some links uh along with uh this interview so people can uh go and check it out and and contribute uh to the cause so I appreciate uh you doing that and and helping to make a difference in the world it’s another small way to kind of give back is we talk about small Giants and talk about community and um it’s introduced me to a number of different people in in again the cause is just phenomenal um and so if we can help uh enable further research uh for the children and have greater impact uh within our community and Beyond um It’s a Wonderful opportunity Jason it’s been a pleasure speaking with you today thank you so much for being on the show Tim Pleasures all mine I appreciate you having me appreciate everything you do uh with action coach thank you so much to everyone who tuned in thanks for listening to self-made is a myth show with your host coach Tim campsel be sure to help us spread this Movement by liking the show and sharing it on your social media and to join our movement go to be mad together.com all right folks that’s a wrap make sure to pay it forward and I’ll see you all next time take care