October 21, 2022

Episode #51: Nathan Gabhart – Truescripts

Nathan Gabhart is a registered pharmacist who saw, firsthand, the corruption of big pharma and the pharmacy benefits management industry. The desolation of patients oblivious to the PBM ‘game’ ultimately urged Nathan from behind the pharmacy counter and into action. In 2006, Nathan co-founded his first PBM and today serves as Founder and CEO of TrueScripts Management Services. His many years of pharmacy experience and PBM research give Nathan a most comprehensive understanding of how the system works. His passion and commitment lie in developing honest, creative, and customized solutions that deliver clinically sound and cost-effective results.

Outside of TrueScripts, Nathan serves as a County Commissioner and has served as President of the Indiana Pharmacy Alliance and Community Pharmacies of Indiana. When he’s not immersed in business affairs, Nathan spends his time training for triathlons, serving his church and community, and traveling with his family.

TrueScripts Management Services is a pharmacist-founded, fully-transparent PBM that has been revolutionizing the pharmacy benefit management industry since 2014. Our mission is to build lasting relationships by providing prescription benefit expertise at a personal and customized level to ensure optimum value at the lowest possible cost. We are committed to lowering prescription drug spend, achieving clinically effective outcomes, and always delivering Amazing Care.

Transcript

hello this is coach Tim campsall and I’m your host for the self-made is a myth make a difference together show where we’re talking with successful business owners to hear their stories of the journey to building their business and because we know that success in business is not something that we can do on our own we’re taking time to recognize those who have helped us along the way today I’m excited to have a fellow business owner from Indiana with us today my guest grew up on welfare with a single parent and was the first to leave town to go to college in his downtime he enjoys reading devotions and he is most proud of his wonderful god-loving children it’s my pleasure to welcome Nathan to the show today hello Nathan hello Tim thanks for having me absolutely well hey let’s start with having you tell us a little bit um about yourself so introduce yourself tell us about your personal story like where you live about your family where you were born and some of your hobbies sure now I appreciate that again thanks for the opportunity my name is Nathan gabhart I’m a pharmacist a graduate of Purdue University and I was uh born and raised in Washington Indiana which is in Southwestern Indiana um grew up here our family really goes back to 1816 when Indiana became a state so we still have some of the property that was homesteaded so obviously near and dear to our heart but we also love to travel and get out so we have the fortunate opportunities to see a lot of different places but but no places like home they say so yeah so born and bred in in Indiana went to Purdue and then yeah I really started cutting my teeth in the pharmacy world as a partner in a chain of retail pharmacies and then just through that and and how life just continues to bless all of us in different ways just had the real privilege of of co-found or founding um true scripts so it’s just a a great opportunity to be be where we are wonderful so Nathan tell us a little bit more about your family sure so I’m married to my wife Beth she’s a NICU nurse so she also grew up in Washington and she’s also a uh all World athlete Iron Man competitor so she’s extremely competitive we’ve got to have three wonderful children um our Otis Caitlin is works at a research lab in Vanderbilt um then Ashley is a senior in nursing school and University of Cincinnati and then we also have our nephew who’s a senior in high school and then um and then our son who’s a freshman in high school so still have two at home and two that are out um in the real world so to speak but uh but they’re all still fairly nearby and we love getting together and obviously spending a lot of time together you know of faith family and friends or or probably the three most important things in our lives now you mentioned that your wife is also an athlete so tell us about uh your endeavors so yeah so it really I got in into um athletic training and triathlons in particular uh through my wife I was a wrestler in high school so I was always you know semi semi in shape so to speak but uh probably 10 or 15 years ago my wife just got the notion that she wanted to to do some some triathlons so her and a couple of ladies all split um a a race and then Beth did the bike I believe and then the other girls did the run and they swim so really it started there and uh we couldn’t couldn’t run a mile without really stopping and um and then just then we started running two miles and and now fast forward my my wife’s competed in 10 Iron Mans which are 140.6 miles and and then I’ve competed in nine so wow but um but we we all started the same spot I mean we couldn’t run a mile without wanting to throw up so to speak yeah so we we get a lot out of it yeah a lot of emotional uh rewards um from competing wow so Nathan um what’s a funny story that your family likes to tell about you that you’d be willing to share with us today boy well I I what a girl you know I’m probably still that is still a little bit like this it’s kind of a uh I like things a particular way uh and I was always um I don’t say bullheaded or hard-headed but uh um I I like to control things just to some degree so whenever I whenever I slept when I was little I would always curl my you know when we sucked our thumbs back in that and back in that age I’d always curl my hair of my finger just as a you know I just went to sleep better but then it would like stick up and it’d be like a horn and well then they started coming they started calling me bull because I was always so bull-headed and um so if you’re my childhood friends still call me bull and um very few people know why so now you and your audience that’s awesome well I’ll make sure to keep that our little secret oh yeah right right yeah Nathan tell us about how the business came about and at what point did you have the confidence that you could run your own business yeah so you know the the true scripts came about about 10 years ago but it really was an offspring of the first company that I’d co-founded so really as a retail pharmacist we had we had a chain of pharmacies that we owned from Indianapolis on South and as pharmacists we were really the ones that that were the middlemen between the patients and their insurance companies so without boring the audience too much but you know pbms and the abuses of pbms which are the middlemen obviously are on every channel now it’s it’s it’s it’s a very um it’s a very popular political point so everyone’s talking about it but we saw it firsthand back in the early 2000s where these pbms were hired by employers by businesses to administer their drug plan to their employees as part of their health insurance and their their jobs really was to protect the client and to get the best possible costs they could with retail pharmacies and build a network of retail pharmacies and and to also negotiate with the drug manufacturers to make sure that the best drug at the best cost was on the formulary so that when the member goes to the pharmacy you just had someone an advocate looking out on your behalf that yes this is the best or I got the right price because our system our our pharmaceutical system has just flooded with drugs that are extremely expensive and have absolutely no therapeutic value um so we saw it firsthand as retail pharmacists when our patients were being forced to switch from one medication to another we knew as pharmacists which ones were clinically effective and we didn’t understand why are we using a 500 drug when we can use a ten dollar drug well then these pbms started buying pharmacies of their own and then they started steering business to their sister pharmacies now we had a situation where the pbms were negotiating on the client’s behalf but they’re negotiating with companies that they own so as we started seeing our patients have to walk out the door and use another Pharmacy and and we knew the writing was on the wall and we knew what was happening was just not right so long story short Tim I had a neighbor who was extremely frustrated with his PBM one of my Pharmacy partners and I were sick and tired of this of the pbms and and we all collectively said look if we can create one you know we may have our first client right here so we decided back in 2005 to 2006 that’s when I co-founded our first PBM and I served as CEO and co-founder of that company from 2006 to 2013 and and we ran pharmacies and then we ran the PBM but we’re always able to keep them separate but I as life does it deals us um different situations in life we all have hardships we all have emotional and physical hardships that we ought to face and and I wish we could all be much more open and honest about that and quit putting up this successful front that were perfect that were perfect because I put so much pressure on everyone else to keep all their stuff on the inside yeah and it’s just so so destructive right so I was to that point Nathan I all of the folks that I interact with when I share that other you know business owners in the same boat like really I thought it was just me I thought you know I look at it and I see all these successful business owners and I think I’m the only one that’s struggling it’s sad that that’s that’s the view that we all have you’re you’re exactly right and we become Our Own Worst demon so to speak and then we perpetuate it and then our kids are watching and then guess what pressure that puts on our gift right yeah so so really um just to kind of speed through some of those some of those transitions I mean the the PBM and the pharmacy worlds both of our companies were really doing extremely well um I went through some personal issues you know my brother had gotten killed in 06 and and it was a tragic loss and it just went through a two or three year period of this emptiness and I never had been you know extremely dedicated to anybody to my faith and definitely not any particular denomination um but I was always always a good person I guess you could say so after about three or four years of just trying to figure out why is this emptiness inside because I had a beautiful wife beautiful kids two extremely successful companies like I grew up on welfare I had you know it’s more money at that point than I ever imagined we would have had and um and then so that finally went to a a church retreat and I told my friend after the third time of saying no I was like look I will go but the first time some guy tries to hug me I’m not I’m out of there I think these these cuddle huddles or whatever you church people that that is not that’s just not me so so Tim I went to this Retreat and uh after 30 minutes of being there obviously they know how we all feel right so they they take that into account and they have it all laid out or you’re so comfortable and then you start hearing these other men’s testimonies and these pillars are the community that you’ve always kind of modeled your life after and start sharing their testimony and and you’re like what you know you’re like you too you know and and and so then that just really set my life on a different trajectory and the lifestyle and the culture that I was working with then at that particular point in time it just became clearer to me that you know this isn’t how I want to live and this isn’t how I want to run a company I want a company that could give any time that we wanted to give would absolutely no ulterior motives I wanted to have a philanthropic company I wanted to have a company of of servant leaders and I wanted to have a not normal company so and then I thought it was uh I thought it was a curse but you know in August of 2013 something happened with one of the companies and I thought you know how could this possibly happen and you know I I wasn’t forced out by any means but in a way I was semi-forced out unbeknownst to you know my partners um and but it ended up being an absolute blessing and if as it was as if God reached down and said okay this is the time to create the company you always wanted yeah so I spun off I started with absolutely zero clients um a number of the folks I’d worked with wanted to come along with me and I said look as long as you don’t need paid come along but I can give you a piece of the company so fast forward today I mean we’ll we’ll do about 300 million in total revenue this year probably 400 next year and probably over a billion in four years and I could care less about any of that I don’t care if we flatlined from here on out and we tithe uh we tithe a lot and we expect our team members to tithe their time um and and we want not normal people who are looking out for others and it’s amazing on how God blesses us back when we bless others so anyway uh so here we are um where we got clients and members in all 50 states I’ve got employees and team members in nine states um we have a leadership team I’m no longer the CEO of true scripts we got a exec executive team that’s just phenomenal and um so yeah so it’s just I mean yeah 30 years ago I was 32 years ago I was on on welfare so wow I’m not anymore yeah congratulations well Nathan share a story where someone pushed you or inspired you that you could do it even though maybe you didn’t think you could and the impact that they had on you yeah absolutely so in high school and then one of the pharmacies I worked in uh it was funny because it’s a it’s such a different world as you could smoke in the pharmacies back then and uh the cigarette ashes was like would actually fall on the counting trays and I was always amazed on how the pharmacist could blow just hard enough to remove the ashes but not the pills but we must have done that a long time so I was just talking to one of the Pharmacists and just listened to him on how on why he was a pharmacist and just being able to interact with the customers and the patients and just the um the the connections you build with them so that was that was extremely incredible so you know that was Joe Spaulding was one of the first pharmacists that I worked with um early on in high school uh so that was extremely powerful great great blue collar Guy and um and then in college you know I I had a professor that um I did not get in well first of all I did not get into pharmacy school my first two tries and and that that’s awesome you’ll never see that on any of my BIOS or any of that I keep asking my team to put that in there um but but they they don’t because obviously everyone wants the Instagram version so yeah so I had to play three times and then the third time I really got my act together the first my first semester I just simply parted too much quoted closer made three C’s and a d and I was a straight A student in high school made three C’s and a D in my first semester may always and B’s after that but that first semester I just couldn’t get that weight and average up sure so finally got in and then during the interview process one of the professors basically suggested that I find another major and he said You know here you are look look at your track record you know just just give up um so so then so that pushed me because I knew I didn’t have any other option and then it was it’s so interesting because then three years later um I was then the first national officer for the Academy of students of Pharmacy in the history of Purdue University there was five of us out of 85 000 Pharmacy students and I get the fortunate opportunity to get elected in Los Angeles so then I was I was in all the conferences at all the seminars because I was one of the golden children and I always made sure I made made eye contact with that one Professor who was sitting in the back and my table was always up front and um and I you know I thanked him a couple of times just because he was the only one that really told me the truth yeah and uh and that was the truth from what he saw on paper but I I knew I I knew what I wanted to do so that’s awesome wow so Nathan what about your biggest learning as a business owner I’m sure there’s been many but what would you say is the biggest one so the prince probably what I’m going through now is is whenever you’re small and you have a small team that’s the really as long as you’re capitalized as long as you have the the cash the cash flow your business then that’s really the best time that was my best experience as a business owner because I knew every communication because I could overhear it you know we’re all in a small office and I had 100 of the entire scenario over every client every relationship I have all the data points that I needed so then as we continued to grow and now you know I get updated maybe monthly or bi-weekly right and you know some things things quarterly and that’s probably the the hardest thing I’ve had to do now is to give that trust over to my executive team and um I I call it the if it Factor um and that’s Instinct and tenacity because just just like in a race uh in an Indianapolis 500 when that pocket opens I mean you don’t have time to think about it so but I’m always being updated after the fact so I’m always yeah trying to try to protect myself that I’m not hindsight quarterbacking okay right yeah the Monday the Monday Morning Quarterback yeah right that’s like you know exactly what did you say to them and what was your tone so that that’s probably the hardest part now because I enjoyed that one-on-one interaction I enjoyed the relationship building I enjoyed getting to know them and their family and to know what who they were as the person and now you know like we brought on more clients this past month than we did our first year wow and it’s just like it’s it’s I’m not complaining at all but I I grew up on welfare I I I I have no desire I have if I die with a lot of money in the bank then I have not lived my life right so that’s my goal is to die virtually broke but it’s not going to be I mean we could sell the company now and and have high nine figures it’s stupid what they pay for pbms just because of the amount of money you can lease out of a client if you don’t have any morals but um but really is the uh the learning how to let go it was it’s the toughest it was the toughest thing for me personally yeah I I hear that a lot with everyone that I work with is but you know nobody knows how to do it as good as me or it’s just easier if I do it myself and and I I always play back that might be true in this minute or in this instance but it’s not true you know over multiple years of you continuing to do those things and you know then you know you’ve got to let go so that you can move on to the next version of yourself and right in the next version of the company and be able to delegate so I’m so excited for you that you’ve been able to to let go and even though it’s challenging but trust your team to be able to take it on that’s awesome well and I’m sure my my team would say Well it hasn’t been as smooth as he may have made it but yeah that’s definitely that that definitely was one was was one for me but but you know early on in the career though I mean obviously as any business owner would tell you whenever he or she jumps out and jumps off the ship and and he’s you you feel that headwind and everything is resting on your shoulders and you look around in all these livelihoods are are counting on you to get that next client and or to ensure that your AR gets turned over and and et cetera Etc you know that’s a lot of pressure internally but but we always try to set the company up where we wanted to be a debt-free company from the start so I mean we had our office furniture was donated and we still have one of one of our offices was is done still today just as it is as it was and it’s donated furniture and and whenever my team gets too high and mighty or too pompous or two or whatever I send them to that office and uh kind of like a timeout I’m like look this is what built your scripts yeah and it’s because your 12 000 stand-up desk isn’t functioning properly I mean give me a break yeah that’s awesome Nathan we know that business success doesn’t happen in isolation so tell us about one of your biggest challenges during the years and maybe a fellow business owner who came alongside you and helped you through that well I tell you I can’t give I get enough credit to to my partner’s attribute scripts I mean they both took a huge risk whenever they they gave up very successful careers they did come on board so having Kevin and John as my wingman would really made it so so easy because one they taught me how to be just a better person uh a moral person and um and two their skill sets really complemented mine with my gaps so that was extremely important and then really by the Association of friends that I had as a result of that one of the Retreats I went to you know some time ago yeah I joined a prayer group from that group from that Retreat and had a different circle of friends now one of them’s probably the number five ranking state senator in this in the state and and we’re actually leaving this this afternoon for a retreat and um but just that the people that that got surrounded by who did that I surrounded myself with that God surrounded me with um really it was was instrumental so the self-made myth really is you know if you don’t have the right circle of friends in your personal life or in your professional life um you’re not going to become the best versions of yourself and if you’re not you know nurturing your your spouse and that’s something I needed a much better job of you know my my spouse spouse than Jesus Christ are the two that go to the back burner immediately whenever Nathan takes over yes right and no matter how many crosses you put up on the wall or whatever full honesty it happens about every three hours I’ve got it

I appreciate your transparency Nathan hey if I asked you to pick three specific people that um were part of your business owner Journey that you’re most grateful for being there for you and helping with your growth who would those three people be and how they help you sure I say you know the first one I would say was for you know Joseph Spalding who was one of my first mentors um you know in high school he um obviously was a pharmacist and and really going back earlier to that than that me I worked ever since I was in the fifth grade because you know we had to if we wanted to have candy or whatever we wanted to have so the one of my my very first boss was the the owner of a grocery store and his name was Doug Campton and I’ll never forget it was a Monday afternoon it was probably 1987 1988 and I got paid a dollar fifty an hour a dollar 25 an hour and did you do the stock and uh which netted me eight nine bucks for the week which was plenty um did they get Coke and a candy bar every day at lunch anyway one day I I was he was paying me and he gave me a dollar 75 an hour unbeknownst to me he gave me a 50 cent raise just because he said every time he looked over I was my back was always bent I was always working and I wasn’t overly talking to the customers and you know I was my attention to detail especially on the baby food aisle which was the worst you know making sure so that taught me attention to detail and just do the right things and the right people will notice and and don’t keep looking over to see okay is he is he watching and I remember I just I literally walked home on clouds that that night so that really transferred over to me now is you know I’ll give you for example I mean last two years ago we did not hit our our growth goals however our financial performance outpaced where we thought we would be so we I had a dilemma do I keep that excess or do I give it back so we gave back a million dollars to our team and it was the most incredible moment I think we ever had and and we didn’t have a ton of team members at that at that point in time so we simply did it invited the math and said look you guys probably deserve it as much or as or you know at least as I do so so that really stemmed from early on in my career wow and and then more currently you know I would say you know the opportunities I had at Walgreens headquarters back in 97 I was able to they selected me from Purdue to to come up and work at Walgreens headquarters for a summer and several my predecessors were see CEOs now former CEOs now and um so that experience was really interesting just from a corporate perspective um so and then some of my former partners in the pharmacy world you know when I got out of college and you know they were just some some great guys as well so I’ve always had good people in my life that’s fantastic Nathan as we think about the neck next three to five years what are the biggest challenges you see that that company’s going to face to get to the goals that you want for your business and who are the types of people you’re going to need to help you overcome those challenges so so the the biggest goal I think we have the biggest challenge we’re going to have and our goal is is to continue to focus on our purpose on our why and our and that is to help make others the best versions of themselves uh and for instance you know financially so if we can help and mentally as far as in a prescription drug world if we can continue to process these prescriptions one prescription at a time and to know that there’s an actual person using this medication for a specific reason so let’s make sure that the medication is the best for that particular diagnosis so that person can return back to normal activity let’s ensure it’s at the lowest possible cost so that that person and that employer can have as many dollars left in their pocket as possible now we plant these seeds and let’s do that with love let’s do that with Charity let’s do that with purpose and let’s do that with kindness and then maybe they can take that and then spread that to their communities so that’s easy to do when we did a hundred thousand claims a year but now two and a half million this year four million next year so now what we’re doing is we’re putting other metrics into place and we call it our Care Bear program and and it’s basically this the the thought process is is yeah now that you’re taking 200 calls a day per person instead of 10 we need to make sure it doesn’t become automated or robotic yeah so one of those people one of those calls two of those calls are going to be pretty special meaning that what that person is going through on the other end of the phone and those those interactions where it’s a young mother dealing with a child that just got a cancer diagnosis or just some terrible terrible trauma and they simply do not know what to do that’s when you grab a Care Bear and it’s literally just a teddy bear and make a handwritten card and send to that Mom or to that Dad and when they get that and they see that you you actually are thinking about them wow just the impact that’s go and no Roi we don’t broadcast it we don’t tell the client hey look what we did so that does two things one that keeps us our team on their toes because if we see someone hasn’t sent out a Care Bear in a month we’re like all right come on you’ve got it so that’s the ulterior mode that’s the guard rail is to make sure that we don’t get too too um immune to it and into this and you know how it is Tim when someone Smiles at you or just shows you a simple act of kindness yeah sometimes that’s the most heartwarming um thing that you’ve experienced that day even if you got a bonus check from your work if someone was just overly kind or generous to you that probably that hits your heart more than anything monetary does yeah wow that’s awesome love that and and you’re right it for some people that could be the only kind gesture they got all day yeah yeah because the world is going to get jaded sometimes right yeah it is and we always point you know we always point this way if if the Democrats would take over it’ll be better if the Republicans take over here right Purdue went the national championship it’ll be better it’s always outwardly but if we all just look in the mirror and focus inwardly and just change our change our life and then let’s then let’s worry about someone else yeah it I can’t remember the the name of the song but it reminds me of a Christian song about um that’s why basically the point is that’s why I made you right this is like Jesus’s Jesus’s message is that’s why you’re there is to make a difference in those situations stop stop pointing the finger at others yes and in an hour from now I’ll be pointing a finger at someone else fair enough right I need I need as much help as anybody and that’s um it’s We’re All in This Together yeah Jim Rohn said that we become the average of the five people that we spend the most time with so as you think about that quote what advice would you have for business owners who are trying to do it on their own so you you have to know your I I internally always ask why why does our why why are we doing this so you have to ask yourself why do you want to do what you’re setting out to do and if it’s to make a million dollars or to have a house in Hawaii um there’s no advice I can give that person so you have to you have to know your why and then with that you have to get like-minded individuals on board and that’s the challenge and is to get at least one or two people you can really depend on that can almost finish your thoughts and that’s and then be willing to be generous and and like I I gave up 48 of my company which today is worth it

I can I can tell you that my partners will watch this they’re not worth it I’m not worth it so but someone’s got to take it right so all right sorry you have to you have to be generous and oftentimes um uh you agreed obviously is going to be destructive so you you have to you have to be generous with with the company so and then you have to be crystal clear with your purpose I I internally I always say that we’re the Chick-fil-A of the PBM industry come in you’re you’re gonna be we’re gonna be closed on Sundays because again that’s our day of rest uh we’re going to uh have a limited menu and we’re going to provide a product that you you’ve never seen in your life and we’re going to provide an experience that you’ve never seen in your life and we’re going to do it we’re going to get as big as long as that big comes replicable once it’s no longer replicable we stop growing got it because I I’m not concerned about adding another zero to my W-2 statement at this point it’s just it’s just dumb money I’m not saying the government should take it or anything like that um but the point is is that what it does get progressive because now I I’m in the situation we’re in and and we get contacted monthly at least monthly from either private Equity or or competitors and when you think of ebitded times 15 or even at a time 18 right you’re like whoa I mean you could you could make a lot of people who extremely wealthy in your community uh by giving that away so so there’s always going to be people pulling at you so but early on you have to be crystal clear on what the foundation of your company is what’s the purpose and that’s one thing when we launched our company I mean we lost a half a million dollars our first year but we said we’re going to tie the large percentage of our net income every single year so the first year was easy and right we would have got we would have gotten paid but we implemented that from day one and now you know we’re giving away millions and millions and millions of dollars we do it quietly we share it maybe be in situations like this just yeah to try to help encourage other business owners to share the wealth and you will be I will guarantee I’ll get a client two weeks from now that I shouldn’t have gotten and it just happens yeah and it’s like I don’t understand it but you can’t you simply can’t outgive God but you have to have a team and you have to have then in my opinion you have to have brutal honesty with those core team members that are building your company because they’re going to see you at your worst right they’re going to see you when it’s extremely yes and and you need to know that they can one tolerate it but two stand up to it and be that sounding board to say look stop you’re you’re acting like an idiot we’re not going to do this yeah and they they can take ownership temporarily until you get your senses back about you and and do not surround yourself with a bunch of yes yes sirs or yes ma’am type of people yeah and that will destroy a young company um without people being comfortable about being honest yeah wonderful last question here uh Nathan if there was something catastrophic that happened uh in the business today who’s the first person you’d call and what would you want from them

um let me see good question um I’m not sure exactly how to answer that I mean there’s a few different directions I would go I mean from a financial perspective I wouldn’t care because I know what it feels like to be poor and I kind of like the thought of having to go out and you know fend for myself again because you do get lazy you get fat and lazy but you know I think I would call you know I got some dear friends that are you know ministers or in the clergy um because right now I feel God gate has given and again I’m not I don’t want that to be taking taken out of context I’m not saying that if you’re faithful if you’re a Christian and that God’s going to just hand down every single thing that you need um I’m just saying that the the belief or the love and a higher being of some sort really keeps you down the straight and narrow in my opinion so I probably would reach out to some of my my brothers in the faith and just simply say boy I had the I had the vision of of philanthropy and if you know we we want to build a few different types of facilities in the private sector to help folks around we haven’t announced any of it yet but you know now those dreams so the first thing that would come to my mind Tim is okay now those dreams are gone and and now what were we going to do and you know how can we accomplish these goals sure so so that would probably be my first one I mean my team members obviously I think we have a dream manager that we hired so we want to work yeah he worked involve our team members to help make them the best versions of themselves and and I told him his goal I told him in two years I’ll know he’s successful if we lose two team members and he his mouth just kind of dropped and I left it at that and about two weeks later my HR came in my office and said hey did you tell Travis to fire two people and I said look I was like we got 109 people 109 people did not wake up and say I want to work for a PBM the rest of my life right some of those folks are teachers some were preachers some are nurses some are missionaries some are fill in the blank yeah I want to know who they they are and let’s help them become that person that they want to be yeah and how cool is that going to be when they’re a successful fill in the blank and we provided that launching path yes that’s our goal as a company is to make people the best best versions of themselves and in the meantime they’re going to make the best product that we create that you’ve ever seen yeah wow Nathan sounds like you’ve been blessed with some incredible people who have helped you on your journey if they were all here on the show today what would you want to say to them oh well one just I thank you for their um their their forgiveness uh and what I mean by that is I’m not a back patter I’m not a cheerleader I just you know I always call it the right side of the decimal point you know good enough’s never good enough and that’s probably one thing in hindsight that I probably did the poorest job of is just thanking them along the way and just um making sure that they all know that and that may be the majority owner and founder of true scripts but the company I created had five employees and and 10 clients the company they created have 109 employees and you know 400 500 clients so for them to be as proud for them to be more proud of true scripts than what I am because they’ve contributed to more to its growth than I have and just my apologies for not recognizing them along the way when you’re in the trenches and you’re taking bullets and you know you’re just trying to conquer the you know the other side so that’s probably been the the collateral damage of this is just being super driven that um I forget about that emotional connection so so just to apologize and let them know how emotionally um just thrilled I am that that they were along my side yeah Amen to that that’s awesome Nathan it’s been a pleasure speaking with you today thank you so much for being on the show you too Tim thank you and thank you for your mission this has been wonderful to everyone who tuned in thanks for listening to the self-made as a myth show with your host coach Tim cancel be sure to help us spread this Movement by liking the show and posting about it on your social media and to join our movement go to bmadtogether.com all right folks that’s a wrap make sure to pay it forward and I’ll see you all next time take care