April 15, 2022

Episode #26: Tony Valle – Promethius Consulting

Tony Valle grew up in the Chicago area and started his IT career as a Programmer/Analyst for Northern Trust Corporation. Tony moved to Indianapolis in 2000 to help found Promethius Consulting with fellow IU Bloomington graduate Denver Abernathy. Promethius provides a well-managed and very experienced “outsourced IT department” for small and medium businesses across the United States. Tony’s main focus these days is educating clients on the proper network setup, best practices and employee policies to safeguard against ever increasing security risks in today’s modern business environment.

Tony is especially known for translating complicated technical topics into “plain speak” that any non-technical manager can understand and act upon. To learn more about Tony and Promethius Consulting, please visit www.promethius.com.

Transcript

hello this is coach tim campsall and i’m your host for the self made is a myth make a difference together show where we’re talking with successful business owners and partners of businesses to hear their stories of the journey to build their business and because we know that success um and achieving business results doesn’t happen in isolation it’s not something that we can do on our own we are recognizing the folks who have helped us to excel i’m excited to have someone from the it industry with us today my guest opened up for an 80s band called ugly kid joe in chicago that is so cool we’re going to ask a little bit more about that in a minute here he enjoys fishing in his downtime and he is most proud of being a dad to a wonderful 11 year old boy who is his everything it is my pleasure to welcome tony to the show today welcome tony tim thank you so much for having me it’s a pleasure awesome well let’s start with having you introduce yourself tell us a little bit of your personal story like where you were born where you live about your family and some of your hobbies sure absolutely uh so i was born in good old bloomington indiana so i’m a hoosier through and through i get i get to say i’m a hoosier and that is sometimes contentious uh because i grew up in the chicago area so so uh my younger brother does not get to say he’s a hoosier um i get to say it but i moved back in uh 2000 uh to start prometheus consulting with uh with my former college roommate denver abernathy now long-time business partner and um i live in uh fishers indiana so i’ve so i’ve been here in the area uh 23 years or so awesome and um live in fishers uh lewis my 11 year old is uh he’s he is the ultimate wingman uh we do everything we do everything together fishing camping um you alluded to my uh my ugly kid uh joe uh fame my 15 minutes of fame most people don’t don’t know even who ugly kid joe you would have to call them a one-hit wonderer okay and uh yes i did open up for them uh in chicago once and it was it was hilarious because it was it was after their their fame had they didn’t know they were no longer famous but everyone else everyone else knew that ship had sailed so it was fun it was interesting oh that’s awesome so tony is there a funny story that your family likes to tell about you that you’d be willing to share with us today well let’s see really just several several um i think i think one of the favorites that gets regurgitated from time to time no pun intended you’ll see why that was a pun i was a i was a waiter a long time ago while i was in school and i worked at a very very busy restaurant and i used to love waiting tables because i found it to be very meditative you know it’s when you’re busy you’re so busy there’s so much to keep track of that you you have to get into this zen zone you know and i i kind of enjoyed that on a very busy day uh or evening once uh and this was like a pasta restaurant i think it was called the spaghetti warehouse here in indy we have this the spaghetti factory in the chicago area we had this spaghetti warehouse okay but uh i didn’t have a a second to spare it was so busy the the uh tray of uh a food came to the table side and i was you know you have to remember who has what you can’t i never wanted to be that guy that said uh who had the lasagna you know that’s no class if i had it all so i i was my back was to the uh to the customers this is a family and i had a i had a plate of uh linguini and clams in my hand and again i was so in the zone it was almost like i was out of body it’s like i wasn’t even there i was so in the zone well i was so relaxed that uh i can’t believe i’m saying this on camera i i drooled oh right in the pasta oh no it’s him i’m just ashamed to say the truth of the matter is i had a moment i said what do i do i just turned around and i served it

maybe that means i’m i’m no longer uh you really shouldn’t be interviewing me i’m clearly a horrible person but that did i told that story and that that’s one that my family has asked me time and again to kind of retell that i can’t even imagine yes

thank you so much for for being so transparent i love your knucklehead so tony tell us how the business came about and at what point did you have the confidence that you could run your own business absolutely so um in so as i said my business partner denver abernathy is uh uh he was an old college roommate my dear dear friend and we let’s see i graduated from iu uh bloomington in uh 92. and denver and i kept in touch over the years and oddly enough neither of us has a stitch of um i.t education nothing not a stitch and oddly enough that was so in in the mid 90s that’s kind of when the the technology gold rush really started to happen and we both found ourselves in the i.t field although neither of us had any training whatsoever wow and uh we kept in touch i had a a denver was uh was uh working kind of you would call it an i.t administrator he he for the organization he was with here in indy he oversaw everything i.t for this organization and i was in the chicago area i was a uh programmer analyst for the northern trust uh corporation international bank and uh i was i was in there i was working on their i.t systems and we we determined you know again we’re in the midst leading up to y2k we’re in the midst of serious gold rush we were both young enough and naive enough that we and we had neither of us had any responsibilities we didn’t have families we didn’t have mortgages well probably denver had a mortgage by that but um we’re just dumb and naive enough that uh we we got this idea he was up let’s see i guess maybe i was down in indy to visit him to say hi catch up we just kind of got this idea why don’t we work why are we working for someone else let’s work for ourselves you know uh-huh and uh that’s really how it started we had um almost no plan um and uh that that’s how we started we started with nothing um it was uh it was bare bones and we we just bootstrapped our way and here we are 23 years later and you know yeah we it’s we’ve come a really long way now now we we no longer do not have a plan you know that we still don’t operate that way but you know over the years um it’s interesting you have a lot of um a lot of people want to work for themselves you know this is very common so when they when they have friends or acquaintances who’ve actually done it you know there’s kind of uh well they want to see if they can learn what’s the secret because i want to do it too yeah and one of the things denver and i always say is you know we always go right to what are your responsibilities now because i think a key to our success that our key to the way we did it back then is again we had kind of nothing to lose we had we didn’t have uh wives to impress or even girlfriends to impress no kids nothing so we could live very lean when we have a friend who’s very well established maybe a high earner but working for someone else you know we we kind of go right there first we say are you willing to have some down time here have a couple of bad years before yeah and uh you know half of our job is to scare people away you know business ownership is not for the faint of heart no it certainly wasn’t yeah so tony tell us a little bit more about the company how what do you guys do how do you help others and and uh what how do how can people get a hold of you to learn more absolutely uh so our company is prometheus consulting um it’s there are a couple of different spellings prometheus is the greek god of forethought and we knew right from the get-go that our bread and butter was going to be essentially just managing uh it networks for our customers so we are a simple way to think about what we do is we’re an outsourced i.t department for small and mid-sized companies that either can’t afford to do that themselves or they just don’t have the expertise

really from day one that’s always what we’ve been now it’s interesting as as technology has progressed over time of course the you know the way we advise clients and the way we design networks and the way we manage data today has really changed sure quite a bit but the main the main fundamentals have always stayed the same the idea is um if if if you work with prometheus you you know i t is just it’s not your headache we’re we’ll take all the responsibility we’ll we’ll be um you know we we very often meet with management of our our clients so we’re almost like an i.t director without having to have all that staffing infrastructure internally right and uh the way to get a hold of us uh our website prometheus.com and that’s p like peter r-o-m like mary e-t-h-i-u-s you can always call us 317-733-2388

you can tell i’ve given that number out about eight thousand times over the years fantastic yeah wonderful um i’d love to hear a a story where someone pushed you or inspired you that you could do it and uh and the impact that that that person had on you by you know by nudging you to to move forward where maybe you thought that you you know you weren’t able to do it on your own yeah you know early on in the history of our company um we had of all things a client of ours his name is bob decker uh he is probably well i was going to say he’s probably retired by now he certainly deserves to be retired but he he might he’s he might be the type of personality where he’s he just likes to go to an office and sit and read the paper and that sort of thing but back within our our first three or four years of of business bob was a client of ours and and i think he recognized you know that we were young bucks and we probably needed a little help a little guidance and i don’t remember we may very well have gone to bob he’s a very uh very successful businessman and uh did extremely well for himself we might have gone to bob i don’t remember but we decided he said listen i i will mentor you he is we essentially exchanged services it was kind of became a barter situation yeah uh you don’t charge me anything for it and i’m gonna mentor you and we we met regularly for at least a couple of years yeah it was absolutely invaluable and um bob was a person who who did push us quite a bit early on um i remember one of the problems we had early on was um we we couldn’t get our um some some of our clients to take our advice

and to denver and i this was kind of frustrating because our culture has always been just who we are um it’s always been kind of a service oriented culture so we are not sales people we’re not we’re not out to uh drive mercedes and get country club memberships we’re not out to hit sales goals and all that stuff our our formula has always been let’s let’s be good stewards for our customers i t budgets let’s do our very best to kind of help them make the right decisions

and because we knew we were coming at it from that direction it was very frustrating when someone wouldn’t take our advice and we knew we’re giving you good advice right you know this is really what you should do it was it really hurt to see some clients make mistakes now you i have to think back let’s say this was uh let’s say this is roughly 2004 2005. the i t industry on a whole by that time was so full of itself i t people were just such jerks you know and these are back in the days when um it professionals were so sought after that they would they would show up to work in uh you know hawaiian shirts and chuck taylor high tops and you know with mohawks and earrings in their nose and just kind of say what are you gonna do fire me i don’t think you are so the so everyone was so dressed down now denver and i have never you know we’re we’re not uh fashion plates we’re not rebels and all that stuff but we still compared to everyone else we were still kind of i would say dressed uh down you know we we would uh work in jeans that was practically the uniform you know that was the uniform and uh we were complaining to bob one day people are taking our advice it’s horrible we know you know they it’s causing problems it’s going to cause them pain we know it yeah and uh

bob used to talk about um you need to show your clients you uh out of her he he used to say out of respect for them wear a suit dress up out of respect for them for their time i remember uh denver and i one day we uh went to uh men’s warehouse that’s back when i was not so fat that i had to go get something custom we used to be able to just buy off the rack and we went to men’s warehouse and we bought we each bought i don’t know three or four suits or something like that we started dressing in suits and bye got it it worked like a champ people started taking our advice yeah and that was a that was a really good lesson and uh it was a a big stress reliever for us i think i think he and are both naturally wired anyway i grew up my i saw my dad leave every morning in a suit i mean he used to mow his lawn in in tassel loafers you know that’s how my dad always dressed up you know yeah so that’s all i knew i felt uh much better um doing that now now that we’re we’re older and our our clients know us so well they trust us we have this track record now we’re in this phase like i we have like an indycar team uniform you know a little bit or all our people uh can wear you know we’re like uh it’s like seeing the penske guys out there you know at the track everyone’s dressed the same yeah and uh so we still we still really value you know we learned that lesson early on how you dress says something people take something from that and i this our current uniforms they uh i was coming into indy from so i can’t remember where i was flying from but we got in i don’t know nearly midnight and i’m walking through the uh i’m walking through the airport and uh uh some chip ganassi uh team uh team members were coming off some other flight so i was walking through the uh the you know to go get our lucky luggage with these guys and i just they looked so professional so uniform so it’s like i would have hired those guys to do anything you just just by the way they dressed right the attention to detail yeah um i knew i i these these it’s a great organization you just know and i i said to denver the next day i said we we’ve got a we we love we’re both huge indycar fans i’ve been to the race heck this is almost going to be my 40th year in a row i think this race so i said it’s perfect let’s do so now that’s what we try to do our guys look like an indycar team and uh yeah it’s pretty neat that’s awesome so tony we know that business success doesn’t happen in isolation so tell us about what uh let’s say your biggest challenge during the years and and uh you know a fellow business owner or or mentor who came alongside of you and helped you get through that um uh yeah i think one of the things about uh business that is is so challenging is it’s uh but it’s also you know rewarding and interesting it’s it’s so very complex it’s a weird thing because it is complex but it isn’t complex and i think one of the biggest challenges over the years is that as you grow in our organization you as as the business owner your your um your bucket of problems completely changes right you know back when we started it was just denver and i way way back in the days and uh um so we were you know we like to say we we were the guys strapping on the tool belts you know it was it was us we and we were customer facing now we have uh you know rough 20 employees roughly we’re not a we’re not a big uh organization but we’re still vastly different from the way we used to be and i think uh when you couple with that um that there’s there’s really no there’s no playbook there’s no there’s there’s no owner’s manual for your business whatever your business is you have to kind of patch together your own yes owner’s manual um i think uh you know what we have done what we’ve finally figured out is look you have to you have to get a team together team of advisors you know we’re not finance guys we’re not legal guys we’re you know we’re not we’re not sales executives so um you know we we built we we built a team um and i’ll just pick one you know so uh you know we worked with monty riffer on sales uh he’s with the riffer group here in indiana do you know monty by chance oh no oh great guy great guy um um you know chad walker uh with bose mckinney is our is our legal counsel our main legal counsel uh but i’ll just say uh chris dump chris dump is our cfo our outsourced cfo i’ll just kind of pick on chris as an example you know once we got to a level of complexity where we said well this is rarefied air for us you know the our everything’s bigger and more complex our budgets are our payroll is bigger our you know everything’s bigger yeah um chris is someone that uh you know we regularly meet with chris and we just we say okay do your thing tell us tell us what the tea leaves are saying yeah and i think you know furthermore one of the great things about working with an outsourced person of course we we are outsourced right we’re an outsourced i.t we recognized a long time ago that part of our value is that because we work with so many computer networks we’ve we’ve seen it all yeah we’ve seen everything so when we get a call from someone who says whatever i don’t know i i just uh got we got hit by ransomware my i.t guy is on vacation in uh europe and we don’t know what we can’t even get a hold of them what the hell do we do this that’s act that actually happened to us by the way wow um we’ve seen so many different networks so we’ve seen so much that’s part of our value so we understood you know what as we need financial advice or legal advice you know we didn’t let’s not hire in-house let’s let’s get a guy who works with a ton of people so again chris stump is one of those uh people and we we recognize the value you know he’s and we will ask um our advisors um all the time hey tell us about your other clients what are they what are they facing how are they feeling what’s going on you know so yeah i i love that perspective of you know recognizing that you know hiring an outside expert right or or you know outside contractor or you know outsourced anything right you’re buying that that expertise right and so yes it may cost a little bit more than hiring internally but to your point you’re getting all of that knowledge and wisdom and and expertise that what might take us internally to do two hours they may be able to do it in 15 minutes because right they’ve been they’ve done it so many times that they know all the tricks and the and and the best practices so yeah absolutely and i i i would say that uh i would actually say i don’t think it’s more expensive usually that’s the other thing it’s usually i have found it to be less expensive to outsource but you get a much more distilled expertise so i i think it’s win-win yeah that’s awesome so tony if you had if i asked you to pick three people um throughout your business owner journey that you’re most grateful for helping with the overall success of the business who are those three people and how they help you i would say right out of the gate i’m i’m gonna say uh my business partner denver abernathy is uh that he’s got to be number one for sure um he is uh he is truly the kind of the rock of our organization he is i mean without denver we’re kind of nowhere you know um you know i think there’s something about him he grew up on a farm and uh i’ve been lucky enough over the years the family farm still still exists it’s still functioning family farm i’ve been lucky enough to go out there and kind of help out and kick around over the years quite a bit and as a city kid i’m a chicago city kid right so yeah put me on a farm i’m gonna die pretty quick but i have observed that there is uh uh as a farm kid i’m pretty sure that uh denver almost on a daily basis was put into uh situations where um he had first of all a lot of responsibility you know i know you’re a kid but you’re driving the tractor you’re this expensive piece of equipment that we must have and when it breaks down guess what you’re gonna be the one fixing it and you you know your make sure these animals don’t die and all this stuff yeah and i think i think he grew up in an environment where there was nowhere to turn there’s there’s you know where to pass the buck and uh he may have thought to himself hey i’ve escaped the farm you know as an adult i finally escaped the farm little did he know he’s still the guy the buck stops with him so he’s really been our rock our anchor i would say uh another person is my dad my uh my dad was a uh had a very distinguished uh career as an executive he ran a multinational food packaging company and you know i learned a lot just through osmosis um i had a little bit of a chance to actually work for his organization like when i was in college some of my summer jobs you know because my dad was my dad yeah i got to i got to work here and there but i but i got to actually see him in operation a little bit he was so he was so high up the org chart that i almost never said he was somewhere else not not even on the premises but every once while he’d come in for a meeting yeah and i just got to see how he handled himself um and it was uh life-changing for sure he was probably the most capable person i ever witnessed um let’s see

who else uh my goodness um so many people um i’ll just mention monty ripper again uh monty um came in and did a project a big project for us his expertise is in sales and uh he has a whole lot of uh experience um he would he worked for a little group that would uh take over um floutering businesses and turn them around and then sell them and they they did this five or six times um and but what’s interesting i think what monty really taught me um is actually he’s a he’s a person he was able to have this amazing uh career uh but he did it with integrity he never he’s a very uh he’s a person of faith he’s uh he is a straight shooter and uh i think uh that’s what i most that’s actually the sometimes when you work with someone you know there’s the this you know there’s the expertise that you’re paying them to show you but then you learn some other things around the periphery yes and maybe they don’t even they don’t even know i’m you know he he probably didn’t even know i’m teaching i’m showing tony that you can be you can stick to your principles my dad was very much this way as well he you just knew he navigated this career of his my dad and you just you just he would never lie he would never it just you know so so yet monty uh really it really helped me i think with my spiritual faith more than even though he’s a tremendous sales intellect so yeah those are those are the three i would name off top of my head fantastic well appreciate you telling the your stories about each of them so tony as we think about the future and let’s say the next three to five years what are the biggest challenges you see that you’re going to face in being able to achieve your goals and who are the types of people that you’re going to need to know to help solve those challenges

oh man uh thank you for uh you know helping me focus on the the terror that that awaits us so lord knows lord knows i think tim we we have some huge challenges ahead and when i say we i mean all at least american business people that’s certainly all small business owners um we are in uh uh i i think i’m staying the obvious we’re in very strange times yeah um so i actually think that our biggest challenges are going to be uh uh actually societal and geopolitical um i think what’s happening in the business climate now is people as a business owner you you you want to make plans right and it’s important to make plans and what is important is uh if you’re going to do that successfully you have to have a reasonable reasonable amount of faith that kind of the rules are are generally going to be the same moving forward as they were in the past yeah and uh my own personal uh faith in that has uh has been really quite shaken um and so it’s hard to say it’s interesting we can as as a company you know prometheus as business owners denver and i can look back to 2008 and uh we actually weathered uh uh that uh economic crisis really quite well um it’s interesting you know our business we’ve been lucky enough it’s it’s it’s kind of been impervious and i would even look to covet as well yeah now we we we had to do a lot of um

we had to do a lot of gymnastics during the during the covet era you know that uh however if you look at our our bottom line and our fundamentals etc we’ve been just fine yeah it’s awesome now even giving given all that the uh you know there’s just kind of an element to what’s going on in our society and the geopolitical uh framework there’s an element of um the unknown that is is it just feels different it feels different yeah um so and who who am i who are we going to need to know um you know i don’t know the thing is i think there’s a chance that no one in our uh certainly circle of advisors and contacts and friends there’s a chance that no one is going to have an experience with what’s coming yeah you know yeah yeah and i don’t know what’s coming and they don’t know what’s coming but it just seems like it’s not looking too good so um i i you know tim i’m gonna say the most important uh people are going to uh actually be um people of integrity i think that’s going to be almost like uh i think relationships and friendships are going to be the most important you know it’s interesting we have um several clients um several several several several that have been with us you know well over a decade you know so we have these long-standing relationships and as i said earlier in this interview you know uh we have never we’re not an uh an organization as i said we’re not looking to drive mercedes and uh you know pull the wool over someone’s eyes and so i know that for our clients we if we you know like i said lord knows what we’re going to be going through but it seems like it’s going to be rough times i know that we will be um as much as we possibly can we’ll be an asset for our clients yeah and i think the reason that we’re going to be that way is because you know we are grounded uh moral people who you know we’re not it’s it’s not all about us and i would just extrapolate that out and just just think you know i think we all need to surround if you haven’t already make those connections make those friendships and just surround yourself with good quality people um who are uh we’re just gonna who are solid you know who are solid because we don’t know what’s coming up yeah scary times it sure is and you mentioned covet which it was also you know pretty scary for a lot of businesses and and the the part of your story that you shared that i appreciate is you know we talk to our clients about you know set set your vision right set your long-term goals for your business but then break it down into you know what’s going to happen over the next 90 days because we really can’t control or predict what’s going to happen beyond 90 days right all we can do is you know what what can we do to today and tomorrow and you know over the next couple weeks but don’t give up on the what i don’t give up on the goal the how may have to change right covet covert made all of us have to pivot and adjust and rejigger things and and you know look at stuff differently but you know the difference between the folks who you know they ducked their head in the sand and said oh well i can’t control anything right now so i’m just going to wait it out over you know the next couple weeks till it goes away well unfortunately a couple weeks turned into a couple years right versus others who said well you know what i still have to put food on the table i got to figure this out and i need to i need to pivot and and look at my business model differently and those businesses actually came out of covid in a much healthier position than they went into so to your point i we don’t know what’s going to happen over the next couple years but if we you know if we set our sights on we’re going to win right we’re going to be flexible and adaptable and we’re going to surround ourselves with good people and and we’re going to maintain our morals and our standards and all right we’re just going to do the best that we can those are the businesses that are going to be successful and sustained through any of the ups and downs absolutely yeah you got to be scrappy yeah you just you have to you have to be scrappy it’s it’s not all uh uh you know uh pina coladas and country clubs you know it’s yeah and i like that yeah that you’re you’re gonna you know at the end of the day you’re gonna do right by your clients and then um we had clients who you know who weren’t able to pay us through covet but we didn’t fire them because the right thing to do was to help them get through the the craziness yeah yeah and you know tim i think i think there’s a certain type of capital that uh no one uh talks about and that’s maybe call it social capital or or something and uh uh you know one of the most powerful things we do um believe it or not it’s funny to see this work now in it it’s a unique experience because there’s a uh b2c side of it right we’re all used to we all get to go to the apple store and buy iphones and ipads and or we get to go to best buy and buy you know so everyone has this has some experience with equipment and and therefore a lot of times we see that bleed over into the organization let’s take let’s say a a business owner um needs to outfit his uh his staff right with machinery well in his personal life maybe he really loves max you know i i just love them and so there’s like this status or something there’s this you know yeah and so sometimes uh a business owner will come to us and say well it’s everything’s getting old and decrepit and uh i want to go mac for everybody you know and uh this is just an example there are all sorts of sometimes the owner will come to us and say or the manager will come to us and say here’s what we need and what we do from time to time you know is uh now we we could order we could order a bunch of macs you know we do all sorts of hardware and sales and that sort of thing and so here’s a sale that lands right in our lap and uh but uh sometimes we’ll say no no no we’re not gonna do that you know and here’s why here’s why it would be a really bad decision and uh uh oftentimes the our the the alternative is uh much less expensive you know but it’s the right thing to do yeah and what happens over time is those those people remember that yes and then years down the road when we say okay now you’re in a situation where you need this other piece of equipment and it’s it’s expensive they’re they’re fine because they they trust us you know yes so so this social capital thing is uh you know people don’t think about that because you can’t put it on a balance sheet and you you know into financial reports but uh i i spent at least for a small business i think i mean what else is there that this is right this is the magic that can’t make it through to uh financial statements but it’s so very important absolutely yeah and and in bigger corporations right we measure our brand equity right but to your point right that’s not something that we can tangibly get our arms wrapped around as a small business but but you can definitely people can feel it right people know who they trust and who they like and who they prefer to do business with and and that that reputation gets spread around because people tell other people about wow you know what this is so abnormal that you know they just talked me out of spending money with them and wow right and and okay so something you haven’t asked me but i’ll i’ll answer i’ll ask the question for you and i’ll answer it because i think it’s pertinent to our conversation you haven’t asked me so how do you uh grow your business how do you guys go about how do you market yourselves and that sort of thing and the answer is uh we really do know marketing work or or sales you know we have a process but most of our business vast majority of our business comes through referrals yeah okay and and let’s think about a referral here for a second when now we all i’m not gonna name names but we all know if we’re business people we all know people who are bad news right yeah maybe we maybe we’ve been burned by someone and uh or we know someone who’s been burned by someone well when when you make a referral getting back to this kind of social capital thing i think there’s this is going to be heady here i’ll try and keep it uh concise what we’re doing when i uh say let’s say monty ripper our um our sales guru right if if you if you say gee our organization we we have no we have no direction sales wise at all you know what do we do i would say talk to monty but the reason i do it is because because i know monty is such a solid person and i have absolute faith that he’s going to do the right thing now by me giving you that referral now you’re going to value me a little bit more there’s a there’s some social capital that happens there yes and so uh tim one of the most you know where our biggest referral source is it’s actually from employees of our clients who move to another organization oh wow isn’t that interesting yeah that’s all they’re in a culture where their i.t people are out to lunch they’re still doing the mohawks and the hawaiian shirts and they’re kind of idiots and those people they they say i know who you need to go with i i was at a place where i worked with them for years they’re great and so so they get so they’re in a new job and now they get a little more of this social cabinet they’re a little more valuable because of who they know so this referral thing you can’t do that you can’t leverage referrals by being a shyster now some people really try to do that yeah you know right just because that’s who they are and it works part of the time but by being um by just having rock solid values and just like being a good it’s really it’s do on to others right that’s really what it is or being a good neighbor just by doing that and just being that consistently the referral thing just naturally happened so i think it’s a much easier way to do business just be a good person you know amen to that yeah just don’t try don’t cheat anybody just be honest with them do your best and it’s amazing what can happen yeah for sure so tony you’ve been blessed with some incredible people who have helped you on your journey if they were all on the show here today what would you want to say to them just uh thank you thank you and i think the other thing is uh

i would say uh i was watching and i was listening you know um i my dad we lost my dad in 2016 but i i kind of uh i try to live my life in a way that

just says to him i was watching i was observing you know and just so just thank you you know you’re the whole premise of your show i love it’s we can’t no man is an island um it’s it’s uh people helping people that’s that’s the way you get anywhere in life i think awesome tony thank you so much for uh being on the show today a pleasure speaking with you and uh hearing uh all of your insights it’s been my pleasure thank you so much for having me you are most welcome to everyone listening thanks for watching uh self made is a myth with your host coach tim camsell be sure to help us spread this movement by liking the show and posting it on your social media and to join us go to be mad together dot com all right folks that’s a wrap make sure to pay it forward and we’ll see you all next time take care